The_FD

Well I am starting this new thread because discussing with pretty much people, I made it to the point that we were not according on what freedom is.

So the question is open:

how would you define freedom?

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L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon
Les fêtes d'Hébé
The flying dancer dancing

pluiepoco

In my opinion, freedom is out of law, if I'm illiterate in law. But I'm not.
People will attack me for that law is everything binding our potential and present harming doings. Out of law can be anything but social orderliness.
But what I want to explain to you is not how to build a society, but a traditional knowledge of Chinese freedom无为而治.
The supreme law is Nature, who disobeys it will finally get damaged. Human-made law is out of Nature, it breaks natural harmony in order for temporal sake of pretended peace. When history evolves, the Nature will finally replace human rules, and all laws become no laws. Look back and we will find that:

To live free, is to obey the Nature, without law binding, do what human being should do naturally. That is the real freedom.

But if you argue that we can not be free from crimes, warfares, inequities, ..., I'll say don't worry and you will be worry-free.

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刘晓雨 pluiepoco
Home of Asia, 中国语言论坛(Chinese Forum of Languages), 西瓜村

The_FD

Hey at least one who gets interested in that discussion!
thanks!

Though I don't agree with you at all

If I get what you say, you are saying humans are not free because they don't obey the Nature rules. Then Animals are free, just because they cannot think far enough to build laws as humans do and thus obey the Nature rules.
So Humans would be the opposit of freedom because they are able to think!!

Let's take it another way
Isn't Human defined by the fact they can think and build their own society with common laws to everyone?

If you think about it, there are two kinds of rules: the ones from Nature and physics and chemistry and so on... these rules cannot be violated because they are constitutive (example: you cannot fall upward ). Then you cannot define freedom or not.
The second kind is the rules assumed by Humans, which you can think about and whether agree with or not. From these rules comes more or less freedom of course.

If you got what I just said, then you have to come to the point that to have freedom you need Human rules. And thus there is no absolute freedom, there is more or less freedom but never absolute freedom.

Here is such a tiny part of what I think about it

__________________
L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon
Les fêtes d'Hébé
The flying dancer dancing

pluiepoco

Then you are really materialistic though you are Christian, then I will dub you "Marxist", because my father is a Communist and my father's father was still a Communist, and I am a quasi-Communist. Lucky ones as you!

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刘晓雨 pluiepoco
Home of Asia, 中国语言论坛(Chinese Forum of Languages), 西瓜村

The_FD

Hey Watch what you say!!! please

I am NOT christian nor Marxist nor communist not even materialistic

I just build a logical thinking
and I wait for your arguments to put it down.

And believe there are tons of arguments to put it down!!!

__________________
L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon
Les fêtes d'Hébé
The flying dancer dancing

pluiepoco

First, I read your arguments in my childhood textbooks of politics or religions or ...

of Volumes.

What's Freedom, then?

It's a definition, my Boss, a definition is definite, definite must be absolute.

There must be a very clear and definite meaning of freedom. That is Realm of Free-being. Be free of everything, including laws or rules, natures and sciences.

Second, freedom is among today and yestoday, you and me, but not between right and wrong. It's a water to thirsty man, and food to hungry man, it's not wording in book or speaking out of mouth. When you are not free, you will know what is freedom. It can be law, time, discipline, rule, anything that may produce limit to human activities.
So freedom is escape or settlement to every kind of this bonds of limits. Freedom is prevailing in everything. It must be definite!

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刘晓雨 pluiepoco
Home of Asia, 中国语言论坛(Chinese Forum of Languages), 西瓜村

The_FD

If it must be definite then give us the definition!!!!


Does that mean you reach freedom when you don't eat anymore?
I guess that is named death!

The question is not whether you are free or not, but why and what makes you feel (and not be) free or not.
Until now we did not define freedom then you cannot talk of being free or not, you can only talk of a feeling...

And by the way there are numerous definition for freedom, I am not looking for the real one, but for your one you did not give me yet!

__________________
L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon
Les fêtes d'Hébé
The flying dancer dancing