abu_dana

Not that I don't know the meaning of the word.
But what is "seculae"? or "secul"? in Latin. Word origins.

I hear first secular state was Roman Empire? Or Roman Republic? (True? or not true? please, confirm or deny)

I would like to enlighten myself. Because I see deep fundamental and mental division between Western secular mind and Eastern theocratic (religious) mind. You might as well put "mind", "approach", "modus operandi" or whatever.

Of course bearing in mind that there is also another East (Sinoxenic). But that's a different story.

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Lina

In Latin, saeculum means "century". In Christian theology, it was thus opposed to the eternity of the world of God ( there is no time in eternity, so no centuries passing either ). The interpretation of the word then evoluated until it meant "the world of the Earth".

The secular clergy is the people who help at church but are not monks, nuns, priests, etc.

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abu_dana

Thank you for your definition.

So, secular is pertinent to time and the spiritual, in contrast to it, cannot be measured in time? Interesting view.

What about division or separation of secular stuff from religious? Was it (the division) from the onset of ancient Rome even, let alone the rest of Europe?

In comparison with this can someone give Arabic words for word "secular"?

I know there is word "3alami" worldly or worldy.

But the root stem is "3alam" or "3ilm" world or knowledge?

Here is where my knowledge come to crunch.

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Lina

In the Antiquity, there was no notion of secularism : religion was everywhere ; everything had a religious part and special rites to be accomplished : it was necessary to link the worlds of gods and men ( that's the etymological meaning of religion ).

The notion of secular came with Christianism, which theorized later a clear separation between the earthly and the heavenly worlds.

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abu_dana

I think that even geographically and climatically these two regions were put at odds with each other too. Carthage and Rome.

If you look at the map Muslims occupy mostly desert, semi-desert areas whereas West is completely green valleys, although green is the colour much liked in deserts too.

The games, ludi, had a religious element to them during early Rome in honor of Jupiter Optimus Maximus. This ended after 220 BC, and while other types of festivals, such as chariot races, still maintained a religious facet, the games did not.

So, starting from about 220 BC secular games became really secular, without any religious meaning. From that period till the time when prophet Jesus said that any man should give God's to God and give Caesar's to Caesar the fate of separation of secular from religious has been sealed for Christian West.

I don't see that division of secular from religion in Muslim world of today, let alone times of early Caliphates.

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Lina

First, Carthago was not Muslim, since Islam didn't exist. I am not sure it was what you wanted to say, but it may be useful to recall it.

Then, I don't know where you found this information about the ludi, but they had always a religious meaning : for the antique people, the games had no other goal than letting the gods manifest themselves, by choosing who would win. That's why they didn't care at all about performances : the only thing that mattered was who had won.

And finally, the secular games didn't mean that they were not religious games, but that they were supposed to happen every century. Precisely, their religious meaning was very important, since they were interpreted as the openning of a new era. This is why Roman emperors often "recounted" the years of that "century", to be able to organise secular games and thus mean that their reign was the return of a new Golden Age.

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abu_dana

This is where I found this information from.

Ancient Rome :: Daily Life

I have to repeat that again - Initially these secular feasts and parties were religious, you are right, but since 220 BC they have become totally devoid of religious meaning.

And believe me this is not a site that is sponsored by me.

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