What is secularism? - Page 2

Lina · 11-23-2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abu_dana

This is where I found this information from.

Ancient Rome :: Daily Life

I have to repeat that again - Initially these secular feasts and parties were religious, you are right, but since 220 BC they have become totally devoid of religious meaning.

And believe me this is not a site that is sponsored by me.

Then I'll be very interested in knowing who made this site, for I study ancient Rome in one of the best schools and one of my teachers ( actually the director of my departement ) is a specialist in the history of sport in the Antiquity and didn't tell us this.

Something else : they didn't explain their date of 220 B.C. ; from where did they get it ? If one wants to be taken seriously in history, he has to explain such things.

abu_dana · 11-23-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lina

Then I'll be very interested in knowing who made this site, for I study ancient Rome in one of the best schools and one of my teachers ( actually the director of my departement ) is a specialist in the history of sport in the Antiquity and didn't tell us this.

Something else : they didn't explain their date of 220 B.C. ; from where did they get it ? If one wants to be taken seriously in history, he has to explain such things.

And I believe you. But also I can't believe how can you combine religion and sport, how sport can be religious? I can't find similar parallels in Muslim cultures.
I understand Greek mythology also promoted religious sports or sportive religions. These Olympic games stem from Olympic gods.

See, this is a trait or a pecularity very particular to the region of Europe. If they spread to Middle East they spread with colonization by Romans and Greeks but indigenous people never thought of religion in such a sportive way

Lina · 11-25-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abu_dana

And I believe you. But also I can't believe how can you combine religion and sport, how sport can be religious? I can't find similar parallels in Muslim cultures.
I understand Greek mythology also promoted religious sports or sportive religions. These Olympic games stem from Olympic gods.

See, this is a trait or a pecularity very particular to the region of Europe. If they spread to Middle East they spread with colonization by Romans and Greeks but indigenous people never thought of religion in such a sportive way

Well, you combine religion and sport when everything has a religious meaning. In the Antiquity, the gods were everywhere ; sport competitions were just occasions for them to show they had chosen someone.

But I recognize that such practices weren't spread in Middle Asia with the Greek colonisation. The vestiges found reveal that only people of Greek origin had such believes.

abu_dana · 12-03-2007, 05:03 PM

Lina,
I see your point. But here is one more question then, why is it then that Europe chose Middle Eastern prophetic tradition, we know Jesus Christ s.a.s was of Eastern origins.
If they wanted to switch from polytheism to monotheism they could have evolved their own local religions of Rome and Greece, or Celtic religions, or Viking religions.

How come all these powerful religions come from deserts like Judaism, Christianity, Islam.
How come all best cameras come from Japan?
And best cuisine and fashion from France?

Lina · 12-04-2007, 06:56 AM

I don't think they consciously "wanted to switch from polytheism to monotheism" : it's a bit more complicated than that. Actually, Christianism began to spread wider and wider during the IInd and IIIrd centuries. These were periods of uncertainty and trouble, especially at the bordering regions like Judea, and the traditional Roman religion revealed its limits : there was no belief in resurrection and the famous Campi Elysei were very... "theoretic" let's say. Christianism, with its paradise especially, was then more comforting and attracting, but before it had that importance, Isiac cults, for instance, which comported more or less the same believes, were very popular, even at the end of the Ist century B.C.

As for celtic cults, they were widely replaced by Roman practices before Christianism came to the Western world.

For Viking cults, I think proselytism and missionaries played a great part, but this world is not my speciality.

And I do think Italian cuisine is not bad at all !

abu_dana · 12-20-2007, 02:40 PM

Bonjour, Lina!

I agree Italian cuisine is good!
For Malaysian people, from their point of view, French and Italian would be almost same.

So, we accept that evolution from polytheism to monotheism happened only in Middle Eastern area in Fertile Crescent, Palestina and Syria.

I am still surprised why Europe failed to come up with monotheistic belief of their own without borrowings from other regions?

In parallel compare with what Middle East now is missing and always have been missing another evolutionary link as democracy and civil society.

As far as I know Europe has had 2000 years to come to where Europe is now with liberal values and individual rights development.

I don't know how come Middle East for their own 5000-6000 years' history never arrived to same outcome as Europe has, although they could have done it 3 times???

This is only speaking of recorded history, excluding nomadic communities that never developed writing and records.

Also, could you confirm that number of wars that happened in small Europe exceeds number of wars in big Asia by 10-15 times? From scientific source.

I am not trying to diminish or belittle someone I am just trying to understand why we should be different and on what we can find common ground?

Comparing is good, it leads to interesting thoughts.

abu_dana · 01-18-2008, 03:08 PM

Yes, I forgot also to mention about LAICISM. Just another word with similar meaning.
Is it also a word of French origin?

12-03-2007, 05:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
abu_dana International Forum Fan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Qazaqstan Posts: 290 abu_dana is an unknown character at this point	Lina, I see your point. But here is one more question then, why is it then that Europe chose Middle Eastern prophetic tradition, we know Jesus Christ s.a.s was of Eastern origins. If they wanted to switch from polytheism to monotheism they could have evolved their own local religions of Rome and Greece, or Celtic religions, or Viking religions. How come all these powerful religions come from deserts like Judaism, Christianity, Islam. How come all best cameras come from Japan? And best cuisine and fashion from France? __________________ OMNIGLOT; ANCIENT SCRIPTS
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12-04-2007, 06:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
Lina Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: France Posts: 2,250 Blog Entries: 15 Lina is a glorious beacon of light Lina is a glorious beacon of light	I don't think they consciously "wanted to switch from polytheism to monotheism" : it's a bit more complicated than that. Actually, Christianism began to spread wider and wider during the IInd and IIIrd centuries. These were periods of uncertainty and trouble, especially at the bordering regions like Judea, and the traditional Roman religion revealed its limits : there was no belief in resurrection and the famous Campi Elysei were very... "theoretic" let's say. Christianism, with its paradise especially, was then more comforting and attracting, but before it had that importance, Isiac cults, for instance, which comported more or less the same believes, were very popular, even at the end of the Ist century B.C. As for celtic cults, they were widely replaced by Roman practices before Christianism came to the Western world. For Viking cults, I think proselytism and missionaries played a great part, but this world is not my speciality. And I do think Italian cuisine is not bad at all ! __________________ Arrêt sur images en ligne Un truc qui ne sert à rien. Le blog non obligatoire, mais pas facultatif
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12-20-2007, 02:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
abu_dana International Forum Fan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Qazaqstan Posts: 290 abu_dana is an unknown character at this point	Bonjour, Lina! I agree Italian cuisine is good! For Malaysian people, from their point of view, French and Italian would be almost same. So, we accept that evolution from polytheism to monotheism happened only in Middle Eastern area in Fertile Crescent, Palestina and Syria. I am still surprised why Europe failed to come up with monotheistic belief of their own without borrowings from other regions? In parallel compare with what Middle East now is missing and always have been missing another evolutionary link as democracy and civil society. As far as I know Europe has had 2000 years to come to where Europe is now with liberal values and individual rights development. I don't know how come Middle East for their own 5000-6000 years' history never arrived to same outcome as Europe has, although they could have done it 3 times??? This is only speaking of recorded history, excluding nomadic communities that never developed writing and records. Also, could you confirm that number of wars that happened in small Europe exceeds number of wars in big Asia by 10-15 times? From scientific source. I am not trying to diminish or belittle someone I am just trying to understand why we should be different and on what we can find common ground? Comparing is good, it leads to interesting thoughts. __________________ OMNIGLOT; ANCIENT SCRIPTS
(Offline)

01-18-2008, 03:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
abu_dana International Forum Fan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Qazaqstan Posts: 290 abu_dana is an unknown character at this point	Yes, I forgot also to mention about LAICISM. Just another word with similar meaning. Is it also a word of French origin? __________________ OMNIGLOT; ANCIENT SCRIPTS
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