xul

I think a lot of native English-speakers blow the difficulty of Chinese out of proportion. Of course it's more difficult than a European language like Spanish or German, but Spanish and German are also related to English, and share a common historical legacy with each other. The thing about Chinese is that you can't learn the pronunciation very easily if you're not spending time where Chinese is spoken, due to the tones. A lot of people who study languages, however, wish to be able to spend awhile on a site with lessons or with a book of lessons, and feel that they've learned something new and practical after studying those lessons. But Chinese can be frustrating for this type of learner who cannot pronounce the tones of Chinese and does not live where Chinese is spoken. The sense of instant-gratification isn't there with Chinese.
But if someone is actually dedicated to becoming fluent in the language, which would require spending time where the language is spoken, Chinese is pretty much about the same as any other language. Even if you wanted to be fluent in German, you probably wouldn't be able to get native-like intonation and pronunciation until after you lived with the people.
So, for people who are casual language learners and who are learning more for fun than for practical use, Chinese may well be much more difficult than other languages. But for the serious student of the language, the same exact time and effort will be spent learning the pronunciation.

I've been studying Chinese for about two months now in preparation for going to Taiwan this upcoming school year as an exchange student. I must say I find it difficult to learn more and more Chinese and not feel that I can speak what I'm learning intelligibly. But the more I study, the more I can understand when I hear it, so that is enough to motivate me to keep on, because I know I will be there to learn the tones first hand soon anyway. Hopefully I'll gain more insight into learning Chinese as the year progresses.

The_FD

I am not exagerating the chinese disadvantage, i am just trying to show there is disadvantages in chinese like in every other language.
And I just meant that every chinese people have the same ideograms but don't pronounce them the same way. Which imply they cannot understand each other when talking (what demostrates the pronouciation is not universally written in chinese ideograms).


Don't feel like i am rejecting chinese languages, i am not... and don't assume what i know of chinese languages because you don't know that

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Tiyz

but you say "In chinese you cannot know how to pronounce an ideogramme when you don't know it because the prononciation(it's wrong, it should be pronouciation) is not necessarily written down. " is wrong
for example (can you see the Chinese letter on your computer?)
ideogramme pronouciation
门 men2
们 men2
钔 men2

坎 kan3
砍 kan3
莰 kan3
.
.
.
.



But in many languages the sound can't be spelled correct
I take a example in English:
"a" in "what" makes a "o" sound
but "a" in "same" makes a "ei" sound
and "a" in "and" makes a "ae" sound
and "a" in "a" makes a "e(turn 180 degree)"sound

The_FD

I appologize for typing mistakes, I do some as everybody does around here

Okay, now for example a friend of mine is "hok hien" (don't know how to spell that) and another one is ti tiou (still don't know now to write that down). They do read and understand the same papers but cannot understand each other when talking. Which means they don't pronounce the same way every single ideogram. How would you explain that if the pronounciation were written down?

To understand each other they use to speak cantonese.

PS and yes I can read chinese characters and even write them

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Les fêtes d'Hébé
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Tiyz

I have know it, but the japanese cantonese and any other language which based on Madarin Chinese don't have the function. Because they bring in the Chinese characters but read it in their own accent.

I'm from suzhou of Chinese, I can speak 3 language. Wu, Chinese, and English. but Many Wu words can't write with Chinese characters.Wu is very different from madarin Chinese.

Now I tried to learn Japanese,but the pronouciation of Kanji(Chinese character) in japanese is so confusion, so I give up

I think you can learn Chinese more seriously. you haven't know what's 形声字 (xingsheng zi)in Chinese.
The 形声字 (xingsheng zi) is only in madarin Chinese.

Tiyz

So please learn Chinese

The_FD

I'll learn chinese when I have time I am not working about languages

Else when I am talking of chinese i am talking only about madarin chinese!!! but about every single spoken chinese.
Which implies the huge difference of prononciation between people despite they belong to the same writing system.

Actually I gess I knew what was xingsheng zi but I don't use to name it like that. Is it the pronounciation signs that stand by the characters to give the pronounciation?

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Les fêtes d'Hébé
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