The_FD

Well I guess i really have to start this forum now, that is talking about the music and how it works. Well i shall say that i prefer people to ask questions on what they are interested in. I don't like the idea to speak on my own, always wondering if people do read, do understand and even if they are interested in what i say ... but still, i hope that it will be a good start
So I'll start on some explainations but please feel free to ask questions on whatever you want to know concerning music theory! I'll do my best to answer you.

Well I guess the first step is going to concern different ways to write the music: you can use staves, tablature or chord symboles using letters from A to G (mixed with staves).

Stave is most useful when people want to play exactly a given work. Though musicians are quite stuck with the notes and the rythm as it is written, even if the interpretation remain a large part of the final work.
The working system is you write every played note in type and duration.

Tablature are mostly used with instruments such as the guitare, it has been created a very long time ago, it was already used in the 16 century.
The thing is you draw where the musician has to pluck the guitare strings to give the right sound. So you play without even knowing the name of the notes you are playing, that's a fine and easy way to play, though the musician may not know what chords and harmony he is using! (unless he has a pretty good hearing and can recognize the notes just listening to them)

Chord symbols are the most effective notation to me, cause it is useful to every kind of instrument, it says at the same time, what chord you have to play, what notes are advised... and it still gives a lot of possibily to musician, who can change whatever he wants following a couple of harmonic rules.

Well let's stop here for a first time, hope i am not bothering you with all that jazz

__________________
L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon
Les fêtes d'Hébé
The flying dancer dancing

Droops

Hello to all, and thank you The FD.

Jazz along if you wish, you shouldn't be alone very long ...

Now, just a few questions ...

Why do I have to tune my Bass guitar in E,A,D,G and not Mi, La, Ré, Sol (standard tuning) ?

Or vice-versa ?

Why is Agostini so well known for a specific music notation technique ?

First two are real questions ... the last ? a fake quizz item ...

I have noticed recently an enrichment to tablatures where you have the Key and alterations to a tune (de)cyphered with a tablature ... it seems to give more to the "simplified" tablature...

Any thoughts ?

Droops

The_FD

Hi Droops

And thank you for asking

Well first of all I shall say that i am a piano player, and that i don't practice the guitare very much

Though i guess i can answer a couple of your questions:

There is a huge difference between simple notes like Mi La Ré Sol and chords E A D G...
Letters represent chords wich is, for exemple the single letter E represents the perfect chord which root note is E. A perfect chord is a chord that has a major third and a perfect fifth. So E would represent the full Mi #Sol Si chord instead of only the root note of it.
Tuning only the root note you are loosing a lot of interesting sounds.

Then the writing goes with altered chors, which could have minor thirds, diminished or augmented fifth, sixth, major or minor seventh, ninth.... and so on.

And then on a single song you can modify the chords, that is for exemple you can change a E- chords (Mi Sol Si) into a E chords (Mi #Sol Si) in some cases.
Or you can change it enirely: for exemple a C-7 chords (Do bMi Sol bSi) into an Eb chord (bMi Sol bSi #Do) still depending on the chord use conditions.

I am sorry but I don't know about Agostini, what about his notation?

Hope that I have been pretty understandable
do not hesitate to ask some more about in case you need or you want to know more

__________________
L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon
Les fêtes d'Hébé
The flying dancer dancing

Droops

Hi FD !

Thank you for the prompt reply.
First of all, I would like to say that, to be honest, I am a still learning bass guitar.

BASS is important here ... we (Bass players) only have 4 strings that are usually tuned as (from lower) :

E = Mi
A = La
D = Ré
G = Sol

tuned one octave lower than guitars :

E = Mi
A = La
D = Ré
G = Sol
B = Si
E = Mi
(6 strings)

Whereas you, as a pianist, can access a much wider spectrum.

Let's say I can play the higher part of your left hand (F key) and a little of your right hand ( G key) where the famous "middle C" is the centre.

No, for harmonics and chords.

I fully agree, no one can consider playing music without ... nuance and tonality.
The Minor/Major approach gives a good idea of what is at hand, but there's more to it.

As I am self-taught (un "autodidacte"), I have discovered the subtleties (subtilités ?) of thirds, fourths and fifths (tierces, quartes et quintes) and their alterations by starting with simplifed 7Minor chords, and made (very strange, and very personal) experiments.

Am I wrong in thinking that what you call a "perfect chord" is in fact the fundamental tone or note ("fondamentale") ?

"Hey guys, what are ya playin' ?

- Why, this a a plain G blues grid, dude !"



However, my question was really :

Why on one hand, the EADG notation, and on the other, Mi La Ré Sol notation ?

Where/Who does this come from ?

(My) Suspects are :

- Bach
- Italians and the "Renaissance"
- Religion

Telle était ma question ?

Thank you again, FD... this topic "tickles my fancy" ...

All the Best

the (Bass) Droops.

P.S. : how do you translate : une Muse ?

Chrissy

this is a great idea!

may you explain to me the diffrence between a shap and a flat? (how many keys do you skip to "get" one...if that makes sense?) I took a semester of piano, but I was too frightened to ask the teacher to explain this to me again! :0

The_FD

Well here goes my answers to you two

Chrissy,
well if you run from an A note up to the next one you have to play 12 different notes. If you remember the piano keyboard there will be 7 white ones and 5 blacks.
Letters represent the seven whites (A to G) so there has to be a notation to represent the black ones. That's where you use the sharp and flat thing. So for example, starting from a D note, if you want to go to the black right above it and not drectly to te next white (which will be E) you have to write D# ... or Eb. That's fine with the piano and only the piano!

Just let me know in case you want the full explanation

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Droops,
well as i told you previously i don't use to play the guitare so i don't really know how you proceed to build yourself a bass line... Of course playing the piano we have chords you may not be able to do.
But here is an (jazz) exmple of how you could proceed, you probably know it already:
On a II-V-I progression, you notice that every 7th resolves down a half step into the third of the next chord. So play the 7th of each chord and go down a half step to the third of the next one. this will provide you an instant background for the soloist playing with you

and well une muse is ... a muse

PS well I assumed you know what a II-V-I progression is. But if nobody teached you that you won't, so don't hesitate to tell in case you would not know.

__________________
L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon
Les fêtes d'Hébé
The flying dancer dancing

Droops

Hi FD, Chrissy ...

I must learn more about music theory, I must admit...

Here's what appears to be a good site (in French) :
http://www.theoriedelamusique.com/mu...rincipale.html

Chrissy, The "altérations" section illustrates the flat/sharp showing a piano keyboard. It may be easier to see what FD is trying to explain

FD, I am afraid I can only guess the II-V-I progression.
I "feel" its I for the tone, playing second (II), the fifth (V), and ... straight to I (the tone) ?
That doesn't "sound" right as I type it ... hopefully, you will give me more information about this ...
If a soloist gives me the the key and tonality (?), (7th minor, 9th, ...) I'll will go along usually quite fine. As I play Blues, Jazz, and Jazz rock, a musical "mistake" may come out as a subtle (but unexpected) "Blue Note" !
Let's say I have been lucky ...

Now, to describe a guitar/bass guitar neck.
We work on semi-tones as our necks are fretted (frets : the metal bars on the neck) every semi-tone (occidental music only !):

This my lowest string :

E|_|_|_|_| (Well Okay, not very impressive ...)

Play it open (no fingers on the neck), it will give you the E
First fret (first _ with the left hand) will give an F (check this out Chrissy, it can be seen on the web site URL I send and illustrate FD's explanation)
second one will give F#
third one will give a G
(and so on)
G#,A,A#,B,C,C#,etc

I was first taught pentatonic scales (?) as it is well known in blues music (et donc many well known tunes) and have built my knowledge from that, discovering alterations and modes to vary my bass lines with personal experiments....
It is enough to jam ... well for me anyway.

Now, as I said, I still have a lot to learn. I feel music more than I can explain it ... this is probably where the muse comes in ...

So long ...

Droops

P.S. : Sorry if I make any mistakes when using musical terms... I know I am in the best place to be corrected.