Nana_Brazil

I found something that can help you a bit about vowels with ~ (til).
It says :

"In common vowel sounds ( not with ~) the sound is stopped by the raised uvula (the bell between mouth and nose)so..it just sounds in the mouth. "

But..
"in vowels with ~ we make the uvula come down and its sound comes to the nose where it makes a nasal sound (sound from the nose). "

I can understand why non Brazilian natives cannot make such sound, because instead of bringing that sound down before it going to the nose, they do the opposite. They elevate the sound sooner so it cannot reach the nose and it makes such "non" effect once the uvula is up. I know this is hard to undertand and to explain too. I am not good at certain terms to translate. But if you look up the word UVULA in your english dictionary or in any on the net, maybe you can make a guess about what I tell you.

Eg..
let`s say the word .... PÃO - suppose you start saying it down you do not elevate the sound when you say the letter: p......... then you start elevating with the letter: ...ã... but when you pronounce the letter : o you have it already in the nose making a "unnnnnnnnnnn" sound with your nose.


To make it easier to understand that sequence, imagine the sequence when you say a word in English with the TH..suppose you are new to that and you are trainning yourself.
Take the word...birthday for eg.
You know that the TH part must be put with your tongue between your teeth. But before and after don`t, right? So.. you would train saying in separated parts bir/ th / day then you join them very slowly and long saying....bir....you start normally, down ...th (you put the tongue between your teeth......day (and you take it away).
You can do with the word pão : pã..........unnnnnn

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I`ll never be myself here again!!

Nana_Brazil

You can also train with:

algodão / al...go....dã....unnnn/ = cotton
mãe / mã...aa..eeeeee/ = mom, or:
mamãe (both "ma" nasal) maaaaa.....mã..aa.....eee = mommy
ladrão / la...drã..unnnnnnnn/ = thief
manhã / ma...nhã...aaan = morning
amanhã/ a. ma. nhã..aaannnn/ = tomorrow
cristã /cris....tã..aaannn = christian /(female)
cristão / cris....tã....unnnnnnn/ = christian (male)

Of course in many words we do not long the " unnnnnn ,annnnnn "sound. But it is easier for you to train them

__________________
I`ll never be myself here again!!

Nana_Brazil

I ask a favor to one of the Brazilian guys to record his voice with the ~ sound twice the same word..longing it and saying it normally.

__________________
I`ll never be myself here again!!

pluiepoco

Your findings are quite interesting, when I knew this ~ sign, I did not care it so much, because it's component of kind of -ffix to a word, and Spanish is quite close to Portuguese, but the former is lazy to make its own writing system that are seemingly different from usual latin group, Spanish uses cción, equal to Portuguese são, and French -tion , Italian -cion, they pronounce, I though a little different, because they are different languages.

But Nana's findings are really great, I admire her efforts!

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刘晓雨 pluiepoco
Home of Asia, 中国语言论坛(Chinese Forum of Languages), 西瓜村

Nana_Brazil

Thanks MR. Genius.
About -íon Spanish, -tion French, -cion Italian are different of our "ão".

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I`ll never be myself here again!!

MrTheFly

Actually in italian it's "ione".
Just like "rivoluzione", "esplosione", "orazione"...