At the gym II - Page 2

lenfini · 04-04-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

so..
and, just out of curiosity, why do you need all that?

(1) With strength comes muscle
(i would have said it was the contrary, that with muscle comes strength though

Just to look better, feel better and be more healthy.

Yeah, that's what they taught me in physiology class: with muscle comes strength. But I wasn't the one who was doing the talking. The intriguing thing, however, is that bodybuilders rarely ever make good powerlifters. Indeed, there is a reciprocal relationship between muscle and strength. By the way--and this is the last one I'll ask for now--how do you say "Indeed, there is a reciprocal relationship between muscle and strength" in French?

The_FD · 04-04-2006, 09:52 PM

Hi Lenfini

you would say in french En effet, il y a une relation réciproque entre les muscles et la force" for "Indeed, there is a reciprocal relationship between muscle and strength"

You probably did not noticed that I am studing exercise physiology. Despite I am rather oriented toward blood, cardiac an respiratory matters, I have been studing muscles and strength processes quite a lot. I am now getting specialised in muscle oxygen diffusion.

So to get back to our topic, big muscles are not necessarily stonger. I mean, that's ok an elephant will always be stronger than a mouse... but when you compare muscle strength to its cross sectional area it is the opposit, small muscle seem stronger.
I don't know if you have been reading much about muscle molecular mechanisms. But basically the more Myosine/Actine fibers you have the more power you can have. And large muscle don't necessarily have more myosine or actine. Everything depends on how your plan your training.

Hope you understood what I meant

lenfini · 04-05-2006, 02:31 PM

... I understood it all. I suppose mysoine/actine fibers are what we call "fast-twitch" muscle fibers. If not, I still understand what you're saying. However, when I was in college, my physiology professor (who was French, by the way) taught us that "il y a une relation positive entre les muscles et la force." However, when I asked him why some small guys were stronger than big guys, he froze up. One of my classmates suggested that it had do do with torque, that if you have shorter arms you don't have to exert as much force as someone with longer arms to lift the weight off your chest. Or, je savais que c'était plus complexe que ça.

The_FD · 04-05-2006, 02:53 PM

well, I am sorry I have been so lousy concerning vocabulary. Myosin and actin are the two molecules that let the muscle shorten. Basically when contraction is required actine molecule changes its spatial conformation and slides along myosine. As all those molecules (ie filaments and not fibers) in a muscle are oriented in the same way so that the muscle shortens.

It has actually nothing to do with fast or slow twitch fibers. fast slow fibers is a carcteristic depending on how fast a muscular fiber (which is lots of actine myosine filament regrouped together, plus cell nucleus and cytolpasm and membrane cell...) can shorten. Mainly fast twitch fibers are larger than slow ones. Thus they are stronger (but that's not true when compared to cross sectionnal area). The other thing is that fast twitch fibers are only involved in maximal contraction. Thus if you want to work them out you need to lift heavy weights (I mean it's better to lift 5 times 95% of MVC rather than 50 times 45% if you want your strenght to improve). Body builders are used to rather small weight lifting, so that their maximal strenght does not improve as much as people who train with near-to-maximal weights.

lenfini · 04-05-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

so..
and, just out of curiosity, why do you need all that?

... il y a eu un malentendu.

Il me faut savoir tout ça puisque je rêve d'aller en France quelque jour. Vu que je m'intéresse à faire de la musculation, il est fort probable que j'irai au gymnase quand je serrai là.

lenfini · 04-05-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_FD

well, I am sorry I have been so lousy concerning vocabulary. Myosin and actin are the two molecules that let the muscle shorten. Basically when contraction is required actine molecule changes its spatial conformation and slides along myosine. As all those molecules (ie filaments and not fibers) in a muscle are oriented in the same way so that the muscle shortens.

It has actually nothing to do with fast or slow twitch fibers. fast slow fibers is a carcteristic depending on how fast a muscular fiber (which is lots of actine myosine filament regrouped together, plus cell nucleus and cytolpasm and membrane cell...) can shorten. Mainly fast twitch fibers are larger than slow ones. Thus they are stronger (but that's not true when compared to cross sectionnal area). The other thing is that fast twitch fibers are only involved in maximal contraction. Thus if you want to work them out you need to lift heavy weights (I mean it's better to lift 5 times 95% of MVC rather than 50 times 45% if you want your strenght to improve). Body builders are used to rather small weight lifting, so that their maximal strenght does not improve as much as people who train with near-to-maximal weights.

... pour vos explications.
when I lift, I lift for both. for instance, I might do 3x20 on curls and 4x5 on squats. I want to be big, but I don't want to be big and weak.

04-04-2006, 09:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
The_FD flying dancer Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Paris France Posts: 4,301 The_FD is a splendid one to behold The_FD is a splendid one to behold The_FD is a splendid one to behold	Hi Lenfini you would say in french En effet, il y a une relation réciproque entre les muscles et la force" for "Indeed, there is a reciprocal relationship between muscle and strength" You probably did not noticed that I am studing exercise physiology. Despite I am rather oriented toward blood, cardiac an respiratory matters, I have been studing muscles and strength processes quite a lot. I am now getting specialised in muscle oxygen diffusion. So to get back to our topic, big muscles are not necessarily stonger. I mean, that's ok an elephant will always be stronger than a mouse... but when you compare muscle strength to its cross sectional area it is the opposit, small muscle seem stronger. I don't know if you have been reading much about muscle molecular mechanisms. But basically the more Myosine/Actine fibers you have the more power you can have. And large muscle don't necessarily have more myosine or actine. Everything depends on how your plan your training. Hope you understood what I meant __________________ L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon Les fêtes d'Hébé The flying dancer dancing Last edited by The_FD; 04-04-2006 at 09:56 PM.
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04-05-2006, 02:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
lenfini International Forum Fan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 290 lenfini is on a distinguished road	Yes, FD ... ... I understood it all. I suppose mysoine/actine fibers are what we call "fast-twitch" muscle fibers. If not, I still understand what you're saying. However, when I was in college, my physiology professor (who was French, by the way) taught us that "il y a une relation positive entre les muscles et la force." However, when I asked him why some small guys were stronger than big guys, he froze up. One of my classmates suggested that it had do do with torque, that if you have shorter arms you don't have to exert as much force as someone with longer arms to lift the weight off your chest. Or, je savais que c'était plus complexe que ça. __________________ John
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04-05-2006, 02:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
The_FD flying dancer Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Paris France Posts: 4,301 The_FD is a splendid one to behold The_FD is a splendid one to behold The_FD is a splendid one to behold	well, I am sorry I have been so lousy concerning vocabulary. Myosin and actin are the two molecules that let the muscle shorten. Basically when contraction is required actine molecule changes its spatial conformation and slides along myosine. As all those molecules (ie filaments and not fibers) in a muscle are oriented in the same way so that the muscle shortens. It has actually nothing to do with fast or slow twitch fibers. fast slow fibers is a carcteristic depending on how fast a muscular fiber (which is lots of actine myosine filament regrouped together, plus cell nucleus and cytolpasm and membrane cell...) can shorten. Mainly fast twitch fibers are larger than slow ones. Thus they are stronger (but that's not true when compared to cross sectionnal area). The other thing is that fast twitch fibers are only involved in maximal contraction. Thus if you want to work them out you need to lift heavy weights (I mean it's better to lift 5 times 95% of MVC rather than 50 times 45% if you want your strenght to improve). Body builders are used to rather small weight lifting, so that their maximal strenght does not improve as much as people who train with near-to-maximal weights. __________________ L'histoire de la famille Bourdillon Les fêtes d'Hébé The flying dancer dancing
(Offline)

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