A couple of difficulties in Ukrainian

Stephen · 01-26-2005, 02:01 AM

Dobryi Vechir, everyone. I just joined this forum. Currently I'm helping some folks translate a couple of pages from a century-old Ukrainian book and I have a couple of questions that I hope people on this list will be able to answer. Let me start with this: at the head of a list of acknowledgments of a lot of people who had given assistance to the author, he has a sentence that ends with the words "the following people:" --_sliduiuchi P.T. osoba:_. My question: what is the P.T. mean? I can't find this anywhere.

Second, the author announces his intention to omit from the work _na dybuvanykh dodatkiv_--this word _dybuvany_ appears in no dictionary that I can find; I should guess that it is from _dybytsia_, which is 'to stand up,' 'to rear up,' something of that sort, but it must have an idiomatic meaning here that I cannot trace.

Stephen

Stephen · 02-01-2005, 06:12 PM

(I seem to be having trouble posting a second message to this thread; this is the second attempt.)

Since the query draws no replies, let me propose a solution and hope that someone will either shoot it down or confirm it. Dybaty has the meaning 'to walk on stilts, walk clumsily'. The -uva- infix marks the second imperfective aspect, which is frequentative--that it, it denotes repeated action. So I propose here 'stumbling additions,' or less colorfully 'clumsy additions'. Any comments?

About P.T. I cannot usefully even guess. I'm sure there is a dictionary of Russia abbreviations (probably three of them), but I can find no evidence of any dictionary of Ukrainian abbreviations. Any suggestions?

Stephen

ukraine · 02-08-2005, 08:58 PM

Dear Stephen!

Could you be so kind and give me the full context or the full page in Ukrainian? This way I could try to find an appropriate translation of the requested abbreviation.

Stephen · 02-08-2005, 11:20 PM

Dear Yuri,

I'm afraid I don't have a scanner, so I can't provide the page itself. It is the introduction to Polotnjuk's _Napivnyk tserkovnyi_. He compiled the material from a number of sources over a number of years, and consulted many with expert knowledge on various points, so he has a long list of acknowledgments.
Most of those he thanks were cantors or clergymen. I think I have solved the problem of the titles: Vsch. is _vsechestnyi_, and is used for a priest; "Reverend" should do in English. Vpr. is _vysokoprepodobnyi_, for a monastic priest or perhaps an archimandrite; "Very Reverend" will probably serve here. and Bprosv. is _vsepreosviashchennyi_, indicating a bishop or perhaps a mitered archpriest, for which I think "Most Reverend" will serve.

The sentence containing the other abbreviation comes at the beginning of the acknowledgments: "Rukopysamy i ustnamy podaniamy zapomahai mene sliduiuchi P.T. osoby:" and the long list of persons follows. The only problem I had here was the "P.T."

Polotniuk disapproved of some of the versions of chants that had been published previously, and wrote ". . . hladko i bez vskakykh azh nadto chasto v inshykh zbirnykakh na dybuvanykh dodatkiv"; here the problem is how to render "dybuvany."

And I overlooked this one: Polotniuk published this collection with modern musical notation, instead of the old square-headed notation used in no church publications at his time. He felt obliged to defend this decision, and closes his comments with: "Uvazhaiu vydanie seho zbirnyka notamy muzychnymy za postup bodai o odyn krok napered." Here what I am unsure of is the prepositions; I expect that _za_ is "on behalf of" of "for the benefit of", but I am quite uncertain what to make of the the _o_ .

I'm delighted to have been able to reach this page after I received notice of it. Until now, links to this site have not worked.

Diakuiu shumni!

Stephen

ukraine · 02-13-2005, 08:53 AM

Dear Stephen!

I am not sure with it, but maybe 'P.T.' refers to 'private' persons? Anyway, I am also interested in the true meaning of it, so I hope to ask some priests nearby for definition.

01-26-2005, 02:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
Stephen Junior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3 Stephen is an unknown character at this point	A couple of difficulties in Ukrainian Dobryi Vechir, everyone. I just joined this forum. Currently I'm helping some folks translate a couple of pages from a century-old Ukrainian book and I have a couple of questions that I hope people on this list will be able to answer. Let me start with this: at the head of a list of acknowledgments of a lot of people who had given assistance to the author, he has a sentence that ends with the words "the following people:" --_sliduiuchi P.T. osoba:_. My question: what is the P.T. mean? I can't find this anywhere. Second, the author announces his intention to omit from the work _na dybuvanykh dodatkiv_--this word _dybuvany_ appears in no dictionary that I can find; I should guess that it is from _dybytsia_, which is 'to stand up,' 'to rear up,' something of that sort, but it must have an idiomatic meaning here that I cannot trace. Stephen
(Offline)

02-01-2005, 06:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stephen Junior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3 Stephen is an unknown character at this point	Still need help with a couple of difficulties (I seem to be having trouble posting a second message to this thread; this is the second attempt.) Since the query draws no replies, let me propose a solution and hope that someone will either shoot it down or confirm it. Dybaty has the meaning 'to walk on stilts, walk clumsily'. The -uva- infix marks the second imperfective aspect, which is frequentative--that it, it denotes repeated action. So I propose here 'stumbling additions,' or less colorfully 'clumsy additions'. Any comments? About P.T. I cannot usefully even guess. I'm sure there is a dictionary of Russia abbreviations (probably three of them), but I can find no evidence of any dictionary of Ukrainian abbreviations. Any suggestions? Stephen
(Offline)

02-08-2005, 08:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
ukraine Ukrainian translator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ukraine Posts: 33 ukraine is an unknown character at this point	Dear Stephen! Could you be so kind and give me the full context or the full page in Ukrainian? This way I could try to find an appropriate translation of the requested abbreviation. __________________ Regards, Yuri Yatsiv ---------- Professional English to Ukrainian translation services Professional English to Russian translation services Free Ukrainian Dictionary
(Offline)

02-08-2005, 11:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Stephen Junior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3 Stephen is an unknown character at this point	Dear Yuri, I'm afraid I don't have a scanner, so I can't provide the page itself. It is the introduction to Polotnjuk's _Napivnyk tserkovnyi_. He compiled the material from a number of sources over a number of years, and consulted many with expert knowledge on various points, so he has a long list of acknowledgments. Most of those he thanks were cantors or clergymen. I think I have solved the problem of the titles: Vsch. is _vsechestnyi_, and is used for a priest; "Reverend" should do in English. Vpr. is _vysokoprepodobnyi_, for a monastic priest or perhaps an archimandrite; "Very Reverend" will probably serve here. and Bprosv. is _vsepreosviashchennyi_, indicating a bishop or perhaps a mitered archpriest, for which I think "Most Reverend" will serve. The sentence containing the other abbreviation comes at the beginning of the acknowledgments: "Rukopysamy i ustnamy podaniamy zapomahai mene sliduiuchi P.T. osoby:" and the long list of persons follows. The only problem I had here was the "P.T." Polotniuk disapproved of some of the versions of chants that had been published previously, and wrote ". . . hladko i bez vskakykh azh nadto chasto v inshykh zbirnykakh na dybuvanykh dodatkiv"; here the problem is how to render "dybuvany." And I overlooked this one: Polotniuk published this collection with modern musical notation, instead of the old square-headed notation used in no church publications at his time. He felt obliged to defend this decision, and closes his comments with: "Uvazhaiu vydanie seho zbirnyka notamy muzychnymy za postup bodai o odyn krok napered." Here what I am unsure of is the prepositions; I expect that _za_ is "on behalf of" of "for the benefit of", but I am quite uncertain what to make of the the _o_ . I'm delighted to have been able to reach this page after I received notice of it. Until now, links to this site have not worked. Diakuiu shumni! Stephen
(Offline)

02-13-2005, 08:53 AM	#5 (permalink)
ukraine Ukrainian translator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ukraine Posts: 33 ukraine is an unknown character at this point	Dear Stephen! I am not sure with it, but maybe 'P.T.' refers to 'private' persons? Anyway, I am also interested in the true meaning of it, so I hope to ask some priests nearby for definition. __________________ Regards, Yuri Yatsiv ---------- Professional English to Ukrainian translation services Professional English to Russian translation services Free Ukrainian Dictionary
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Happy New Year in Ukrainian	ukraine	YKRA¯HCKI PEREKLADU (Ukrainian)	2	01-08-2005 06:07 PM
Hindi, Turkish, Ukrainian QA project for native speakers in Arlingto	News	Translation requests, translation jobs	0	01-05-2005 08:00 PM
English to ukrainian translation	Suppak8	YKRA¯HCKI PEREKLADU (Ukrainian)	2	12-12-2004 12:19 PM
English to Ukrainian translation	ukraine	Translation offers, freelance translators, translation services	5	11-13-2004 03:36 PM