xopher425

Greetings all. I was very excited to find this site while searching for information on kanji and translation. I have a growing interest in Japanese, spurred on by love of manga and a desire to get a second tattoo in kanji. I've really enjoyed reading all the responses on this site, as it all slowly helps me grasp this language. I have used a few online kanji dictionaries (like Saiga), and wold really appreciate some personal help with the symbols. All this research is making me really want to begin to study the language, but I've been thinking of this tattoo for a while and want to get it soon.

My goal is two kanji, without hiragana and katakana, vertical on my arm, something to remind me that I can only depend on myself - I don't mean for it to sound negative, but strong. I know that hiragana and katakana are more phonetic in nature, and I love the concept of ideographic characters.

What I've found so far:

唯私, literally combining the kanji for "just" and "myself". 唯 is "just", "only", and "solely". I am not sure if I should use 私, which means "I", "myself", and "private", or 我, which means "oneself", "I", "ego", and "self". Is this right, in the translation, grammer, and gender (if applicable)? This is the most literal, but I also liked:

孤独. I played with this one first, because, from my admittedly all too brief study, it combines two kanji for "alone" to indicate solitude. Am I right? I'm afraid that this sounds too depressing and negative, especially since 独 indicates an orphan. (but I am kind of tickled that 孤 is an abbreviation for Germany, since I used to live there.)

Like everyone else, I want a tattoo that is accurate and looks great. It is a kind of celebration of some recent changes I've gone through, so I want it to be right. Any help or comments are greatly appreciated. I find this language incredibly fascinating, and any input or information is enjoyed and greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Bakanagaizin

If I were you, I would go with a 4 character idiom for this. I know you only want two, but most traditional Japanese sayings (proverbs, ect) comes in four character groups. 独立独歩　（どくりつどっぽ）　dokuritsudoppo means self-reliance; as in don`t depend on the help of others, go your own way and do your own thing. I don`t believe there is any negative connotation, its basically a motivational phrase.

There are actually quite a few other 4 character idioms that have similar meanings. If you google ``yojijukugo`` you can find a big list of all the idioms, then do a ctrl-f and search for those first two kanji 独立. That should show you the ones you`ll be interested in.

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xopher425

. . . . . . . . . wow . . . . I think I'm getting a four-kanji tattoo.

These are awesome, very cool. I had not encountered yojijukugo in any of my reading (I have sooo much to learn). Reading some of these makes me want even more tattoos - although I'll stay with this one for a while (but I am changing my signature on all my emails to 悪木盗泉 to remind my parents that there are other ways than those of fear.)

You are eternally brilliant and I am grateful. Thank you , thank you, thank you. (deep bow)

PS I'm just curious, how common/popular is tattooing in Japan? Is it more common for younger people, is it considered something fringe (as it still is to some extent in this country)? (And do they get English characters like we get kanji?) Do the Japanese have any history of tattooing (like the Maori people of New Zealand believe that you cannot enter heaven unless you can show that you willingly endured something painful)?

Bakanagaizin

Japan actually has a really interesting history of tattooing. In the mainstream it is still a huge taboo, much more so than America. A lot of place where there is a good chance of you not wearing a shirt (ie public pools, water parks) will ask you to leave or cover up if you have tattoos. But it`s not just because they are uptight, the vast majority of people in Japan with tattoos are members of the Yakuza, the Japanese Mafia. So it really freaks people out.

If you want to see some really interesting tattoo artwork, check out Yakuza tattoos. A lot of the members, even today, will get their entire upper bodies covered in intricate connected tattoos. Also as a show of loyalty, and I suppose just to seem badass, some of them will get the tattoos done with the traditional wooden needles used in Japan. In addition to being really painful, that also means they can only get a little bit done at a time over the course of like a year or two.

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xopher425

Wow, I'm surprised that another country is more up tight than the US, but the conneciton with the Yakuza makes sense. I actually had read a bit about the Yakuza years ago; I'm surprised that I forgot about it. I've seen the tattoos, and even watched a couple videos on it, including one from TLC showing a guy getting it done. Yikes.

I am goin with 独立自存, but am having trouble with the pronounciation. I've got dokuritzu so far and can't find the hiragana after that. Also, where are the stresses? And in the word yojijukugo, too. I've been stressing the "ku", is that right? I've been looking and the rules for pronounciation seem pretty complicated.

Thank you so very much. I have my appointment for the new tattoo Monday.

Bakanagaizin

独立自存　（どくりつじそん）　dokuritsujison

Japanese is pretty flat in terms of pronunciation, so I am pretty sure its even stress all the way through. But then again my accent isn`t great, so I shouldn`t profess about it.

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