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Old 04-09-2016, 08:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default need a clarification of verse from sushruta samhita

Hi all,
i lived in India for some years and fell in love with ayurveda. I have Sushruta samhita with english translation from prof. Srikantha Murthy and there is a verse, which i am in need of translating. It concerns of what to eat during Vidanga Kalpa, please see attached picture for Sanskrit original. Prof. Murthy translates it that a patient should eat cooked rice with ghee and mudga soup with amalaka WITHOUT salt, but i also have translation of Sushruta from 1911 by Kaviraj Kunja Lal, and he translate the same as WITH SALT. So please is here anybody who could help me clarify what does the sanskrit verse really say? Thank you in advance for your help.
Vladimir

PS. my wife even read the verse for me, but i could only understand word lavana, but it also has some ending, so i am helpless
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Old 04-09-2016, 09:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You put a wrong image. Only the line of English translation is there - "mudga and amalaka ..." The corresponding Sanskrit text above this line is missing. Also it would be better to give images of text and translation from both books.
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi Komar,
thank you very much indeed for quick reaction, my fault i did not noticed earlier. I am attaching two screenshots, one is the same, only i marked the word for you, which i think is lavaNena (salty). The other screen is from Kaviraj Kunja Lal's translation, there is only english. Would you please have a look into it? Thank you, this time i set up email notices when someone replies.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Ok, now I've got the question.

मुद्गामलकयूषेणालवणेन
mudgāmalakayūṣeṇālavaṇena
mudga-āmalaka-yūṣeṇa alavaṇena
The meaning is -- with the soup (yūṣena), made of mudga and āmalaka, and this soup should be not salty (alavaṇena).
I think it can be said both ways. Without salt at all or with very little salt the soup will not be salty.

Here the combination of two short "a" gives long "ā".
yūṣeṇa + alavaṇena = yūṣeṇālavaṇena

With the word lavaṇena "salty" it will be written separately and without long "a".
यूषेण लवणेन yūṣeṇa lavaṇena "with the salty soup"
But in the text it is not so.

Also there is a variant of this text -
मुद्गामलकयूषेणालवणेनाल्पस्नेहेन
mudgāmalakayūṣeṇālavaṇenālpasnehena
mudga-āmalaka-yūṣeṇa alavaṇena alpa-snehena
alpa - little
sneha - oil or fat
alpa-snehena - with small quantity of oil or fat
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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First of all, thank you again for valuable and deeply qualified answer. So as i understand your explanation the case may be that none of the translators made a mistake, but it is just a matter of interpretation (no salt at all or not salty taste but still very little salt in the mudga)?

Also it seems to me that the older translation is rendered from different original, because in the sanskrit sloka (newer translation) i attached for you earlier is nothing about cooking the vidanga seeds in the same way as indian pancakes? (the older translation starts with this sentence)

And because i was really amazed by your profound answer which shows you know a lot i would like to ask you one more thing. The newer translation reads that vidanga seeds are mixed with lot of honey water at the beginning, however, the older translation says they are mixed with yasthimadhu. I think the concerned word is madhukodakottara. So which one do you think is correct? Or do you understand it differently still?

Lastly, just for you because you spent your time on answering me, i have not eaten salt for almost three months, but i feel physically weak, so that is why i started wondering if not eating salt was correct, since ayurveda says, that all six tastes should be present in one's diet. The other reading of Sushruta you mentioned was from the previous sloka, which is called vidanga yoga, and lasts only for 1 month without salt, and therefore it would seem ok to me to stay without salt, but the verse in question is from vidanga kalpa, which has a timespan of 5 months.

Have a nice day, Vladimir
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merunator View Post
i was really amazed by your profound answer which shows you know a lot
Please don't misinterpret. Your question was very simple. And to answer it nothing is needed but a basic knowledge of Sanskrit grammar. I am not a specialist in ayurveda and I can not give you any advice. And the text of Sushruta is too complicated for me to read it by myself. But I believe I can compare a good translation with the original and say how is translated every word.

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Originally Posted by Merunator View Post
The newer translation reads that vidanga seeds are mixed with lot of honey water at the beginning, however, the older translation says they are mixed with yasthimadhu. I think the concerned word is madhukodakottara. So which one do you think is correct? Or do you understand it differently still?
You are right. For the word madhūdakottaraṁ in the translation stands "after having been mixed with a copious quantity of the decoction of Yashti-madhu". Here I don't know why. Literally madhu means 'honey', udaka 'water' and uttara can be 'above' or 'after'. So the 'honey-water' is the evident translation. But in the dictionary madhu also can be for 'liquorice'. If we'll accept that reading then madhu = madhuka = yaṣṭimadhu = yaṣṭimadhuka - all are the same. And then madhūdaka will mean the same as yaṣṭimadhu with udaka 'water'. So I think the place is not clear and the older translation also can be correct.

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Originally Posted by Merunator View Post
Also it seems to me that the older translation is rendered from different original, because in the sanskrit sloka (newer translation) i attached for you earlier is nothing about cooking the vidanga seeds in the same way as indian pancakes? (the older translation starts with this sentence)
I have no idea about Indian kitchen and how should be cooked Indian pancakes, but the translation seems credible to me. In Kunji Lal's we have "should be boiled in the way of preparing cakes in an Indian cake-pan" for Sanskrit piṣṭa-pacane piṣṭavad. If we say piṣṭa = 'cake' , then piṣṭa-vat will mean 'like cake' and piṣṭa-pacane = 'in the cooking of cakes'. I did not find in the web Murthy's translation and don't know how he translates it. Perhaps he has something better.

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Originally Posted by Merunator View Post
The other reading of Sushruta you mentioned was from the previous sloka, which is called vidanga yoga ...
but the verse in question is from vidanga kalpa ...
Now I found it. Did you notice that in the translation of Kunji Lal both times are translated the same words - alavaṇena alpa-snehena - but the first time he says it as "unseasoned with salt and cooked with only small quantity of sneha" and the second time as "with small quantity of sneha and salt"? The same author translates it both ways!

Actually I took the addition about sneha from the variant reading for that very line you asked. It is given in the footnote in the critical edition of the text.

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Old 04-15-2016, 01:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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So the conclusion here would be that Kunji Lal most probably made a mistake in translation, and alavanena really is, and in given context means unsalty. Definitely thank you so much indeed for your precious time, and next time i have questions, i know who to turn to Also some day i will learn Sanskrit, because it intrigues me, even when i listen to the vedas, i feel some deep connection, some familiarity.
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