The international discussion forum - View Single Post - Do you think that people are good or bad by nature?

Mijzelve · 09-08-2007, 08:12 PM

I'm sorry but I cannot beleive that mankind itself is good. Is a lie something good? When it is, why do we teach our children not to tell them? It is defenitely evil how people treat the earth, animals and each other. I'm afraid Hobbes is right when he says 'homo homini lupus'.

If mankind would be good, that means evil had to come to men, in order to create evil people. This would imply some power that has instated good and evil. Only this way people could be created to be good, but this also implies another power that corrupte mankind. If it were a matter of evolution, this would be impossible, because there would not be an institution that would have instated good and evil.

I cannot understand how anyone is even possible to talk about this theme when there isn't some kind of God. Because without a higher authority mankind can invoke there would be no good or evil, there would just be things happening without any ethical value.
Good would only mean that what would be good what I deem good for myself.

Also it is not possible for God to be evil. If he were and were higher than us, he would have the right to tell what would be evil and what good. In this way, God just has to be good, even if that means bad news for us.

Furthermore is it impossible to talk about good or evil when there would be two Gods, with equal power, one good, one evil. Your perception of good and evil would just be tinted by which one of those gods you would follow.

In order to speak about good and evil you need a God so you can say anything about good and evil. You may come with Hobbes, but he does not say anything fundamental about good and evil, only how we can live together in a way that is best for me. But this is not ethical, only praktical.

And because mankind is bad/evil in itself, salvation cannot possibly lie within humanity itself. God is the only way out.

But as far as the oposite is concerned, I would like to hear a few more arguments. I have until now only read the thoughts of people, but I did scarcely hear any arguments that prove/underline that mankind is good, or if you wish, not bad/evil.

09-08-2007, 08:12 PM	#28 (permalink)
Mijzelve Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Nederland - The Netherlands Posts: 5 Mijzelve is an unknown character at this point	I'm sorry but I cannot beleive that mankind itself is good. Is a lie something good? When it is, why do we teach our children not to tell them? It is defenitely evil how people treat the earth, animals and each other. I'm afraid Hobbes is right when he says 'homo homini lupus'. If mankind would be good, that means evil had to come to men, in order to create evil people. This would imply some power that has instated good and evil. Only this way people could be created to be good, but this also implies another power that corrupte mankind. If it were a matter of evolution, this would be impossible, because there would not be an institution that would have instated good and evil. I cannot understand how anyone is even possible to talk about this theme when there isn't some kind of God. Because without a higher authority mankind can invoke there would be no good or evil, there would just be things happening without any ethical value. Good would only mean that what would be good what I deem good for myself. Also it is not possible for God to be evil. If he were and were higher than us, he would have the right to tell what would be evil and what good. In this way, God just has to be good, even if that means bad news for us. Furthermore is it impossible to talk about good or evil when there would be two Gods, with equal power, one good, one evil. Your perception of good and evil would just be tinted by which one of those gods you would follow. In order to speak about good and evil you need a God so you can say anything about good and evil. You may come with Hobbes, but he does not say anything fundamental about good and evil, only how we can live together in a way that is best for me. But this is not ethical, only praktical. And because mankind is bad/evil in itself, salvation cannot possibly lie within humanity itself. God is the only way out. But as far as the oposite is concerned, I would like to hear a few more arguments. I have until now only read the thoughts of people, but I did scarcely hear any arguments that prove/underline that mankind is good, or if you wish, not bad/evil.
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